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Sir Alec founded Reed in 1960 from a carpet shop in Hounslow with just £75 in his pocket. Since then, he’s founded several charities, launched a business school and in 2011, was knighted for his services to business and charity.
Born in Hounslow in 1934, Sir Alec Reed left school at 16 and ten years later founded Reed Recruitment, which has grown into the UK’s largest family-owned recruitment company. Today, he shares his insights from over seven decades in business, the lessons he’s learnt along the way and why ideas are the real currency of business.
Awarded the Beacon Prize in 2010 and knighted in 2011, Sir Alec’s charitable initiatives have raised over £346 million for a variety of causes, including Womankind and Ethopiaid, both of which he started.
01:33 show intro
02:03 Sir Alec Reed
03:27 starting out in life - accountant
04:13 joining Gillette - an idea company
04:44 early business ideas - toy soldiers
05:43 the Reed brothers - printing business
06:26 taking the wrong course
07:44 a tremendous urge to be self employed
10:31 starting an employment agency
13:31 working on your own - undiluted ideas
16:48 learning to raise alternative funding
18:45 a family business - one route to consider - risks and benefits
23:43 the end game - exits - inheritance and selling
25:16 philanthropy - foundations and charities
27:35 cancer - selling a business and financing a charity
32:14 a new approach to charity - a social innovation
34:48 the Big Give
38:36 looking at failure as a road sign to change direction
41:39 ideas! an idea a day as an exercise
47:51 wrap up and thank you
Follow James Reed on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chairmanjames/
Find out more about Big Give: https://donate.biggive.org/
Sir Alec Reed - Reed All About Business - 08-V03 AUDIO PODCAST
Welcome to all about business with me, James Reid, the podcast that covers everything about business management and leadership. Every episode, I sit down with different guests, bootstrap companies, masterminded investment models, built a business empire, their leaders in their field, and they're here to give you top insights and actionable advice so that you can apply their ideas to your own career or business venture.
Businessman, philanthropist, a maverick at turning strange ideas into success, and the reason I'm sitting here today, my father, Sir Alec Reid. Years before I became chairman, Sir Alec started Reid from a carpet shop in Hounslow back in 1960. 25 years later, he founded the Reed Foundation and has been described by the Times as the man that revolutionized philanthropy.
In this special episode to mark his 91st birthday, Sir Alec Reed shares his insights from 65 years in business, the lessons he's learned along the way, and the secret to being one of Britain's greatest entrepreneurs. Well, today on All About Business, we're at the Reed Business School. I couldn't be more delighted to welcome our guest today, who is A wonderful man, and also my dear dad, Sir Alec Reed.
I'm very excited about this conversation because I've had the opportunity to speak to, to dad over many, many years about his ideas, his views on business, entrepreneurship, and I've learned so much from this man that I'm sure you're going to enjoy listening to him too. I mean, he is a remarkable entrepreneur, he's a remarkable philanthropist, and he's a remarkable human beings.
So going to begin, dad, by asking you a simple question. You left school at 16 with five O levels, I think in 1950, you went on to become the professor of three universities, three doctorates to found a business school to found several companies, and multiple, I think, seven charities. How did that happen?
Obviously started with the business and I became. What I was doing became obvious. I had the means to do it. I had the income that I could support charitable activities. And I think one brick built on another and um, seemed to take the direction of education. So let's go back to the beginning. You were sort of starting out in life as an entrepreneur.
You left school at 16. you didn't have the best exam results. I think your parents had ambitions for you and you had ambitions that involved getting qualifications that you didn't get. But you'd always dabbled in sort of business and your micro businesses as a child even. I mean what were you doing when you were?
But I think when I left school a very important move was my mother taking me to the night school and signing me on four nights a week so she's going to make up for the five O levels. And I studied to be an accountant. It was not quite the right exam, we didn't know that, but I finished it and I became a qualified charter secretary.
I was able to build on that and get a better job than being an office boy. I joined Gillette, which was a very enterprising company, American. And I founded Gillette. They rewarded ideas. And so I soon became attracted by ideas because they, you'd often get 10 quid for an idea and that would be your weekly wage.
So I supplemented my wages with ideas. So they literally rewarded ideas. They paid for them. Yeah. And this got your attention. Yeah. You've always liked ideas. I know that. Well, that's why. You learned very early on that ideas paid off. Yeah. So what were your early ideas for businesses? It's led soldiers, which I made with my brother.
Led soldiers? Led soldiers. There's a lot of spare lead around from bomb sites, and he acquired a mold, a lead mold. Coming up to Christmas, we'd heat the lead on my mother's stove and pour it into this mold. So we're not saying people should try it home these days, but this was in the war, I suppose, after the Second World War.
Yeah, to the end of the war. Yeah. And you couldn't get toys, so parents didn't have much option about buying their children toys. So you saw a gap in the market. Yeah, a gap in the market. Well, you were like 10 years old or something, and your brother was 14, wasn't he, or something like that. milk lady to sell them for us.
So she's delivering milk and our lead soldiers. So you did production and you had a distribution network. Yeah, that was, that was the earliest entrepreneurial effort, I think. After that, we started a printing business and it was a third party. John, my brother, was at printing college and he went on visits to printers and he found a printer that only prints for other printers.
Right. And so we started Reed Brothers Printing. We didn't have any printing equipment at all. And we just passed the order on to these printers and so I think that was our second undertaking. So it didn't deter you having no printing equipment. You could still be Reed Brothers Printing. You could. Yeah.
We knew where to get it. Yeah, you were like an agent in a sense. Yeah. Yeah. And the printers wouldn't deal with customers direct anyway. So you had to be a so called printer to work with them. When you were at Gillette, your mother's sort of obviously encouraged you to do this accountancy course. You said you did the wrong one.
Well, that was unfortunate, wasn't it? It was unfortunate. It took five years. It took five years. You did the wrong course. Yeah. Right. So, I mean, there might be people listening who've had that experience. So, how did you turn it into a the right course, or what did you do? Well, there was an accountancy part, I mean, it wasn't as valuable as the other, I never see it now, it virtually disappeared, but it was aimed to represent company secretaries.
And there was an accounting paper in it, and there's similar papers to the accounting exams, but not, some papers weren't relevant. So I would have been better off taking the accounting, but anyway, I did that later. Once I was self employed, I did the accounting exams. To accounting qualification. I suppose the message here for people leaving school without qualifications is, you know, you can still get qualifications afterwards.
Of course you can, easier now. Easier now. Much easier. And that's definitely something that people should think about. So the journey that you took from Gillette, you were at Gillette, you were putting in ideas, you were getting paid for them. And you were learning, I guess, about business. But then you decided to go it alone, branch out on your own.
Yeah. What prompted you to do that? Well, I had a tremendous urge to be self employed. It was almost a sickness that I desperately wanted to be self employed. I didn't mind what I earned. I was only earning 900 a year, I think. And I was quite happy with that. So it wasn't anything to do with income. It was just my ideas, really.
I couldn't stand my ideas being turned down. As you know. Well, you're blaming me for turning down some of your ideas. That can happen. I know. Hands up. Guilty as charged. Enough of them have landed, I hope, for you to feel. I feel appreciated in part. And I love your ideas. And you're an ideas machine in a way.
You're always coming up with ideas. I mean, that's been consistent in all the 61 years that I've known you. Yeah, I mean, we've been in the second century. I had the best idea probably ever for Reed before Reed was formed. I didn't know it was a good idea. I knew it was not a difference. What was that?
Charging more than anybody else. Charging more than anybody else. So talk me through that idea. I was signing checks to employment agencies from Gillette. So I knew they were getting good income. I'm sorry, they were, they were suppliers to your business and you were paying them. And then one local agency at Christmas took half a page in the local paper, thanking all their clients and applicants and said how many people they placed in each of their offices.
Oh, and you can work out. My wrong accountancy qualification enabled me to work out that they were making a lot of money. So your wrong accountancy qualification might've been the right accountancy qualification if it enabled you to work that out. So you could see that they were doing pretty well. Yeah, and I thought I could do, I could manage on half that.
And so I started in competition with them. So let's go back for a moment. You had this sort of urge to be self employed. A sickness, yeah. A sickness, you called it. Yeah, talk me through that. How did that feel? What, why? What was, where was that? Permanently restrained, I felt. I felt I was strapped in all the time.
When you were working in Gillette? Yeah. And you wanted to break the straps free and do your own thing? Yeah. And that was your key urge to start a business? Yeah, I was looking for a business. I didn't want to be an accountant, which would have been one possibility. And so I was looking for things I could do, and I thought I could do employment agency, and did do employment agency.
People these days talk a lot in business about problems to be solved. I mean when you say you were looking for what you could do, well you, I mean it was interesting when you talked about the toy soldiers that that was a problem that you kind of solved for parents and kids at the time when there weren't many presents.
When you started an employment agency back in 1960, Was it hard for companies to find people? I mean, was it, was that Very hard. So it was very hard, yeah. Do you know why? No, tell me. Where did I, where did I start? Where did you open your first shop? Well, I know exactly where, but you better tell us. Because this is your, your book, I know exactly, I know the address.
I started one branch and it was a great success. But where was it? Hounslow. Kingsley Road, Hounslow. Yeah, but that's not important, it's Hounslow. So why is Hounslow important, to throw the question back at you? I opened a second branch that was a great success. That was in Feltham. Then I opened eight branches that all made losses.
So those first two were successful because of your brilliance or for some other reason? Some other reason. Oh, what was that? Oh, so can you tell me? I know the answer, but like every good lawyer, I want you to tell me the answer. London Airport. London Airport. What was happening there? We were building the airport.
So London Airport was a huge expansion. Yeah, it created an enormous labour war with the Great West Road, which traditionally employed everybody, you know, those factories on the Great West Road. And now suddenly, a lot of people were required at London Airport. So there was a huge demand for skills and staff.
And you were right in the middle of that and your business, forgive the pun, took off. But it might've just ended up being just two offices, one in Feltham and one in Hounslow. It grew way beyond that under your leadership. Well, I'd opened the branches, so I had to make them work. So you had offices, as you said, in Fleet Street and Slough.
I'd been misled by the success, thinking you could be profitable in the first month. I mean, the first week of Reed, it made a profit. The first week you made a profit. Yeah. So how much money did you need to start the business? Well, as it happened, I needed nothing, but I had 75. So the message is, you can start a business with nothing, if you've got the right idea in the right place at the right time.
But you started with 75, which I believe was your pension cashed in. Yeah, I wasn't good at saving money, but this is the pension. But they repay me at Gillette. Right. And was Gillette an early customer? Yeah, very. So you maintained good relations with your Fantastic relationship. Yeah. And support from them.
So okay, so you start a business, you're in Hatton's Lowe. You're working by yourself, I believe, in a little office. How do you think about growing from there? What did you do next? I was always thinking of the next office rather than the next placement. I sort of concentrated on the offices rather than the income.
So you were looking at building that, but what about the people side of it? Who was your first hire? And what sort of people were you looking for to join you? You know, obviously you can't do it all yourself. Well, I didn't, I didn't have anybody for 12 months or so. A lot of people these days think starting a business, they need a business partner, or you know, they do it with other people or find a friend or sibling, or we've talked to other people on the podcast who, you know, there are two or three founders involved.
You did it on your own. Do you think that's a better way of doing it or, yeah. Do you have a view about that? I certainly think it's a better way. , you, you, you think doing it on your own is a better way of doing it. Well, tell me why. What, what, why do you say that? I mean, you get your ideas undiluted, your ideas undiluted.
Uh, I, I chose if you've got a partner, there's a lot of compromise. So you rip these straps off, start this business and you didn't want anyone else saying, Alec, I think we should do something else, or, that's not a good idea. Because he wanted to try out all your Yeah, your, your thoughts and ideas as you.
grew the business, some of the ideas would have worked and some won't. What was critical do you think in terms of continuing to make it a success? What did you really need to focus on? Because I suppose some ideas you have to kill off. They die off, yeah. They die off. You soon know if they're not working.
I'm telling you, I really had too many ideas I suppose, because when I started in Promenade Sarkar, kept starting different businesses. You kept starting different businesses. Yeah, I just like starting businesses. So did you lose interest in the earlier ones? No, no, I didn't lose interest. Just I thought the idea was too good to let go.
So I must do something about it. And someone came through the agency. We, we used to supply jobs to other agencies. We sell jobs to other agencies that they could fill. We, we had a service whereby companies send us the vacancy and I think they pay us an amount to circulate it to a hundred agencies. Cause everybody, generally it was a tight labor market.
So, so everybody was looking for someone to fill the job and you could share that around and. Yeah. I mean, it's very different now. And there are sort of lots of agencies chasing fewer jobs, I suppose. You then built your business up through the 1960s, then you decided to float it on the London Stock Exchange.
I had to float it, because our sales measurement was growing. Initially, I hadn't thought about temporaries, I was just thinking about permanents. Temporary recruitment, yeah. Yeah, and it's only When I got into the business, I realized temporary was a big part of it. And that soaks up money. You've got to pay the temporary before you get the money from the client.
And so the more temporary you've got, the bigger, the better you're doing, but the bigger your sales edge is coming. And financial squeeze with the banks. And one of them, Midland Bank, which took our account away from us all together, I was asking them, it was over Christmas, I was asking them if they would increase their overdraft from a million to a million and a half in the coming year because of this growth.
And they said, no, in fact, we want the money back. So that was a happy Christmas. Yeah. Yeah. So, so the banks that aren't necessarily all that cut out to be, you'd say. Well, in fact, it doesn't exist anymore. It was the bank's problem rather than ours. Yeah, it was taken over by HSBC. Yeah. They should have lent you the money with hindsight.
I don't think our account was keeping game. No, no. So you needed to raise funds in another way to finance the growth of the business. So yeah, we went to 3i. which was a company that invested in other companies, still exists, and they churned us down. Well, funnily enough, the director of 3i did invest in us when we went public, stayed with us for years.
But obviously, his colleagues didn't agree with him, and then we eventually had to go public. So this was a route to finance. Yeah. I'm just thinking about these days, you know, that's a challenge for a lot of people starting or growing businesses. And there are various options available to people to raise funds.
Yeah, more often now. But I mean, are there some you would say you would recommend over others? The company you took public is no longer public because we took it private 30 odd years later, but that's served you well at the time. What would you say now? Have you got any thoughts about finance now? I used to say that was my biggest mistake, going public.
But A, there's no other option. And B, all of this, we wouldn't have, we wouldn't have the business school, we wouldn't have this part of the business. So the proceeds of going public enabled you to buy this business school, which was, um, 50 years ago now, more than I think. So that, that has enabled you to build up another, another offering that has been very positive for a lot of people.
So sometimes the sort of needs must, and then you, you, you move on and you might come back around and change things subsequently. Sure. If that was your greatest mistake it was also helpful at the time and you know you were able to subsequently fix it. It was a nonsense being on solid change it didn't do anything for us at all.
Why not? We didn't raise any more money. We didn't need to. But we just had to abide by the regulations. And that's why you subsequently felt it was a good idea to take it private. Yeah. When we had the opportunity. As a business grows, I'm thinking many entrepreneurs, This thing will be building businesses, thinking about the future, typically in business, you know, we're worried about the immediate, you know, what's happening right now, this week, today, but then we might be thinking 10, 20 years out, our business sort of became, I thought, or by design a family business, I suppose, I'm sitting here talking to you, my dad, I run the business now, that's one route and an entrepreneur might consider whether they want to bring their family into the business and carry on for the future.
more than one generation, there are obviously others, such as a sale or, um, some other exit. What are your thoughts about that? Yeah, I've got mixed feelings about it. I mean, I like the sound of family business, but I wonder who profits from it, who benefits from it. And should those children have had the opportunities spending their share in the way they wish?
So that's from a family point of view. So, so, so that can cause conflict, I suppose. Yeah, it does. What's the solution to that? Or is there not one? I don't think there is one. It's just a decision you make. So families have to decide whether they want to stick together or not. And I suppose if the entrepreneur makes that decision, they're in a sense locking their offspring together in a financial way that they wouldn't do if they sold the business.
Yeah. And that's, I guess, ultimately a very personal decision. And I suppose that has to be made each generation. You mentioned fairness in the context of family business. And fairness, I think, is Super important in all aspects of life, but could you explain for people listening why it might be unfair to, I mean, a lot of people might think, Oh, you're very lucky to inherit shares in a family business.
What's unfair about that? And why is it unfair that someone might be part of a family company? Could you explain that to me? Well, it's unfair because it determines the choice. We're really stuck with shares they can't sell. And if the leader is in place, another part of the family, he could be doing very badly and the shareholders are locked in.
So they can't, they can't move their investment, but they're also fortunate to have inherited shares in a family company, aren't they? Yeah, but not as fortunate as they should have been. Because? Well, because they're limited in mobility of their money. If that business had been sold, they'd have got some cash.
Yeah. And they could have done with that, they could have started their own business or done something else. Well, they could have kept the shares in, in the new business. They'd have lots of options, which would have been tax sufficient. You're saying to entrepreneurs listening, if they're thinking about whether they want their business to become a family business, they need to consider that carefully because issues of fairness in families can be quite tectonic if it goes wrong.
Yeah. There's lots of examples. Which is a shame. Where business ends and family begins is often blurred in those situations. I mean, the family business is a very substantial part of the economy. Family business is a very persistent business model, and some family businesses have been going for many generations.
What do you see as their potential? I mean, if that's a potential weakness, what do you see as their possible strengths? More commitment, I suppose. Commitment. The family. But of these family businesses you're talking about, I don't know anyway, how long they've been going. Businesses don't last that long. No.
I mean, it's just I'm aware of some family businesses that have been going several generations, you know, and others. But they're not family businesses anymore after several generations, probably. Because. Well, they've sold them. Yeah. I mean, Marks Spencers isn't a family business, is it? No, no, it's not. Lots of companies like that.
Most of those, well, all those large retailers like Sainsbury's, etc. were family businesses and no longer are. I don't know how many generations they sustained as family businesses. It would vary. But in the end, none of them Continued to be. So I suppose this sounds to me like maybe there isn't enough talent available in a single family to grow a business of that magnitude.
It's how fair you want to be to the rest of the family. If you've got one individual who passionately wants to do something and would like his money then it's very unfair. Unless families can find a way to sort of achieve an exit for that shareholder? Well, they can't. Sometimes they do. I think they do sometimes, but I think they don't want to.
Well, they might not want to. Yeah. Or they might not be able to afford it. That's true. So if they can't afford it. An outsider moves into the family business. Yeah. So it's not 100 percent family. Is there anything they can do beyond selling to mitigate that or manage that? Not really, not, I suppose it's encouraged by a taxation system.
There's a taxation advantage in maintaining it. So what does an entrepreneur who's building a fabulous business do then? What should they, where's the end game here? I mean, just sell out and buy a boat? I mean, is that the best they can do? For me, it was easy. For you, it's going to be more difficult. I had three children.
One interested in business and good at business. So, and the other two recognize that. And neither of them had a passion they wanted to pursue that required any capital. So there's no conflict of the capital, and you had the talent. But for you, it's going to be much more difficult. That's kind of you to say.
But that's something for me to think about, clearly, yeah. And you know, what's the longevity of a business? It's been fortunate in having taxation relief. I don't know how that's going to be affected now. Well, that's been changed, so there isn't so much taxation relief. There is some, but that, that will affect family businesses everywhere in the UK for certain.
Yeah. We probably need to look for another model. And it might mean that a lot of them cease to be family businesses, because that puts more financial pressure on the generational change. Yeah. So yeah, well, that's interesting. So do you think that would be a loss to the UK that there were fewer family businesses?
Do you think that, you know, that commitment that you get, that you mentioned from the families? No, I don't really. Because they're coming in later in the stage. They'll have their time as a family business to build, and then they sell out. They're still getting the thrust from being a family business in the early days.
In the short term, maybe not. Yeah. Maybe not in the long term. So, one thing you've done which is very significant is your involvement in philanthropy. You know, when I said just now, you know, what's an entrepreneur do, they just sell out and buy a boat. I mean, they could get much more involved in philanthropy, which is something you did.
But you, you were doing that very early on in your career, weren't you? You were involved with charity projects. After we went public, really, my first 10 years was concentrating on the business. So ten years after you started, you started doing some other things, such as, what were you doing after you put the company together?
Well first there was, drug addicts in Soho. There was a retreat for them, a charity run, REN, and they'd come in in the evening, but they needed a few sober people around. So I had a number, manned it on Thursday evenings. Did you help them get jobs, was that part of it? Well, they actually discontinued this, so the drug addicts ended up round Piccadilly Circus.
And we used to take them soup. And this was about the time it was going public and so some of them realised I had the employment agency. I think what they wanted most was herring. I think what they wanted second was a job so they could buy herring. So they were all after me for a job. So we thought if we take, start an employment agency away from Piggledy Circus, and we just, we took it to Hounslow.
Our original branch, and then after about five years, Chapmania Force came to us and said, there's no need for this now, there's such a shortage of jobs, they don't need a specialist agency anymore. Right, so there was such a shortage of jobs. Because I'm imagining now, if you were sort of marketing people and saying these people are drug addicts, it would be quite hard to convince.
Well, we concentrated on family businesses. Oh, so that's interesting. Also, the family business would be open to giving someone a chance. Yeah, yeah. Well, good for them. Yeah. I'm glad they get a bit of credit, the family business group. So they were part of the community in that sense. Well, it's a bigger company.
Probably the individual wouldn't want to take the risk. You went on from there to sort of found several charities as well. As well, in terms of these ideas. So where did the ideas for those charities come from? Can you mention maybe a couple of examples? When I was ill, I had cancer when I was 52. And your mum worried over one of the companies I started.
called Medicare and we built Medicare up to 50 branches of a drugstore and um, never made a profit. Never made a profit before tax. We always made a profit after tax. There was such a tax relief in those days that you can make a profit after tax. So I had to sell, as a public company, we sold Medicare and enormous bit of good luck.
What was, we paid twice what it was worth. There were serial bids, and there were three or four serial bids at about nine, nine, ten million. And one serial bid at twenty million. So let's just unpack this a lot in a minute. So you started this business that only made profits after tax because you got tax refunded.
But that you then put up for sale because you've been unwell. Yeah. Your wife said sell it because you're working too hard, I think. And then you were able to achieve a price that was double what it was worth. This is a sequence of events that's pretty remarkable, but you said it was a sealed bid. And I think for people listening, understanding the difference between a regular auction and a sealed bid auction is quite significant here, isn't it?
Well, you know, it's binding. It's binding. If it hadn't been sealed bid, would you have got double the price? No, I wouldn't have got 20, would I? I don't think so. No, not So the fact that bid 9, someone might have bid 12, 20 for it. Yeah, quite. So a bit of actionable advice for our listeners is if you want to sell something, think about a sealed bid auction.
I mean, I remember you telling me that at the time. Yeah. And so you made a good return on this business. And then what did you do with the proceeds? Amazing. You had cancer. What was your, what was your prognosis when you had cancer at 52? Oh, good. Stage four. So what was your chance of surviving that? I think it was a 40 percent chance.
So you had a 50 to a 40 percent chance of carrying on in life, and you just made 20 million. What did you do next? Medicare itself owed, um, Reid 5 million. They had a current account with Reid for 5 million. All the loans you'd given them, yeah. So they paid that back. And I owned a third of the equity. We returned the rest to the shareholders.
And I owned a third of it. Yeah. And that gave me five million. Tax free with inheritance tax hanging over me. So it wasn't very attractive. I didn't know I was going to survive. So I didn't like that. I could have taken the shares in the acquiring company that would have been tax free. Inheritance tax was likely to be paid because I had a 60 percent chance of not surviving.
If I took the shares of the company, that was buying the business, they would have been tax free. But the company just paid twice what it should have done, so that didn't encourage me. The third thing I thought of was if I give it to a charity, this goes complete, untouched. So I gave my five million to Reed Foundation.
I had a little family charity called Reed Charity, and I used that as a vehicle to put the five million in, and then pondered about how to spend it. I think it's very important to decide how much you're going to give before you decide what you're going to give it to. If you went and you It's, I don't know what to give it to, it can take forever.
Whereas if you get the giving out of the way, it speeds the whole thing up. So you put it into the charity, you decided to give five million away, what happened next? Because it became almost like a social enterprise fund, didn't it? You started lots of new charities. from that starting point and also it became a shareholder in the business.
One of our competitors, an international competitor, has built up a shareholding in Reid. Because they were hoping to take it over? Because they'd seen you were unwell or? No, I think it was longer term than that. Yeah. And um, but then they obviously changed. Change their mind, change of management, and they put it on the market.
And I had the opportunity to buy it for re foundation, which I did. That proved enormous switch of power, built up family controlled shareholding, foundation controlled shareholding, well fam, family, and the foundation. So the foundation became a shareholder, but then you started. I think going further forward into the late 1980s, you started a charity called EthiopiAid, you started one, WomanKind, you sort of had a sort of great series of social innovations.
So what prompted you to do those, or how did that come about? WomanKind was first. I was on the board of various charities. I was on the board of Help the Aged, and they had a, it's charities too, and a way day, and um, it's a way day, and sun's shining, we're sitting in the garden, and I was, after sort of thinking about things and I thought, you know, they're all mainly women here today, why isn't there a woman's charity?
They'd be much more trustworthy than men and they'd put more of their time in than men, probably put more of their money, so there ought to be a charity based on women. I recruited a tough lady to run it. That was very forward thinking at the time. Yeah, there's a few, a few women in charities now. Once you say it, it's sort of, it's so obvious.
Yeah. That was a, again, a gap in the market that should have been better served. So then you also did one for Ethiopia. Yeah, through one kind, a foreign office or something, I was sent an Ethiopian lady that needed a donation to finish her education in England. So she came to see me and it's a thousand pounds or something.
So it was easily resolved. I was then prompted by words from you and the other children. You go to the third world for your holidays, why don't you go to see the aid that's done there? And so that was ringing in my ears as she was speaking. And she invited me and as it turned out, our saviour came to Ethiopia.
She invited us to stay with her, but Ethiopia was then very political and I didn't want to get involved in one party. So I didn't, we didn't stay with her, but she, She was starting a venture for one of the areas, one of the slums. And one of the things they desperately needed was a suction truck that goes around and gets all the feces out of the alleys.
And that's what our first investment was. So it was literally a truck that was emptied drains and sewers to keep the water clean and so important and so needed in a society like that without the, without the sewage system that we take for granted. So that was where you began and then you did more and more.
People that ran the women's charity didn't really want my involvement. They wanted my money. Yeah, they wanted their independence. Probably the sort of defining, well, I suppose if we come back to ideas. You know, if I was to ask you what's been one of your best ideas, it would be a philanthropic one. Yeah, I'll tell you.
I'm thinking, I'm thinking the Big Give. Yeah, they're untackled really. They're neglected. The Big Give is a charity match funding fundraising platform. that was your idea. Yeah. It's currently raised over 300 million for thousands of charities that work all over the world. Talk me through that idea. What, what gave you that idea?
As I say, people have difficulty in finding what to give to, and at large the donors reported aren't giving nearly as much as they do in other countries. So wealthy people aren't giving as much. You think about it, there aren't many products appealing to wealthy people. Charitable products, I suppose you'd be They typically ask for 50 quid, or you know, when you get a mail shot or something.
Yeah. You want 50, 000 quid. There are a few. Office of naming rooms or balconies or things, but nobody aims at richer people. So this was an idea of fundraising. It started with signing a website to attract big donors. That was the first solution. And that failed. It only had one. donation. It was a quarter of a million, but it wasn't satisfying anybody really.
You couldn't look it up. It just wasn't fulfilling. Reeve Foundation had a million to give away itself, to donate its dividends. So I wrote to all the charities and said, 10 o'clock on Tuesday, we're going to start matching funds. So first come, first served. And the million pound went in 45 minutes and we matched it.
So I knew that, matching was on the up. So you're saying you give a pound, I'll give a pound. Yeah. Up to a million and that went 45 minutes. Yeah. So that was, that was clearly a good idea. Yeah. One of the defining ideas, it's the third layer of donors. I was aware that America, I was close to the opera house then.
And I realized that if you're on the board of the opera house, you've done your bit, you know, you won't pressurize to do a donation or anything. But if it was in America, you would be, if you're on the board, you expect it to be a. Substantial donor. So I thought, we're neglecting that. How can we bring those in?
So that brought a third matching in. What makes the Big Give is the double matching, not the matching. So to explain to people listening, if the Royal Opera House wanted to raise money through the Big Give, we'd find a champion who might put in a hundred thousand, but then they'd have to find one of their trustees or another big supporter to match that.
So it becomes 200, 000. So when it's open to the public, they can raise 400, 000. That's what you're saying. Yeah. So that was, it was getting the double match. So there was two ideas there that you, you had one and then you cultivated it and developed another. So an idea off an idea, this thing to you though, it's quite interesting.
You, you, you said that the business you started made a profit in the first week, the idea to have. a million pounds and make it matchable was used up in 45 minutes. I mean, do you think good ideas become, you know, obvious? I mean, they both happened pretty quickly. You know, these were key ideas that in your career that you, um, were then able to really successfully Pursue, but the early signs were good pretty much from the off.
I don't think that's exceptional. That's just exceptional. So a good idea might take a lot longer to brew. Yeah. That was just And if you fail, it changes direction. Yeah, I'd like to talk about failure because you said that, you know, it failed in its earlier iterations. You've talked about About failure a lot in your career.
And I've failed a lot. Failing. Well, you failed a lot. Yeah. You said that you failing to succeed, you've said so talk about failing a lot. What does it mean? So regards failure as an indication of directive. As an indication of pointing you in another direction. So you think of failure is just pointing you in another direction.
They're puffing you off. This in the, this in the road should be coming down . But it's not saying you shouldn't be going down any road saying no. It pushes you to another road. Try another road. Yeah. Quite so you see failure as a signpost. Yeah. Not a buffer. Well, I think that's a very interesting thought. I mean, it's not a, a lot, a lot of us, you know, when blocked or stopped might think that's it, but actually you're seeing it as a sign to go in another direction.
Look at something else. Look at something else. You haven't got quite the right idea. Well, that removes a lot of negativity from failure. Yeah. Well, I was brought up to be positive. My parents were never critical. Well, I had terrible, terrible school reports as you've seen. So you came home with these awful reports.
So this is interesting from a parenting perspective now, but your mother and father didn't mind, or didn't say anything, or? Well, I, looking back, I suppose they thought they knew me better than the teacher did, and, um, I supported their view. Because I've had other, other guests on the podcast who have talked about ADHD, for instance, and, you know, the children who that demonstrate these characteristics often don't perform well at school.
Yeah. But can be very brilliant after school. Absolutely. So, but if you were young now, you might have been diagnosed with that, but you were fortunate in that your parents were very relaxed around that. Yeah. Knew you as who you were and let you get on with life. Yeah. And didn't. Encouraging. Yeah. So you weren't sort of crushed by negative feedback.
Became more insignificant. So there's something very important here about confidence, isn't there? To try things, do things. Yeah, confidence. Does that come from the home, or how do we find confidence if we're not sure that we have it? I mean, is that possible? I mean, you know, any adult listening is obviously, it's too late for their mum and dad to do it.
Have you got any thoughts around that? I mean, seeing failure as a signpost is one. Yeah, if you think that, there's lots of examples of people who have failed and succeeded later. I'm sometimes told, you know, in America, entrepreneurs, you know, that to be a proper entrepreneur, you need to have demonstrated you have failed a few times.
Do you think in the UK that people, that our society is intolerant of failure, or somehow could be more open to giving people a chance? I think it's getting better, but it's not there yet. Not yet, yeah. So people are more open to entrepreneur. So coming back to the sort of early theme of ideas, You said right at the beginning of our conversation that's what motivated you to sort of set off on your own.
Yeah. You wanted freedom for ideas. Have you got any guidance for people how to come up with ideas, how to be more creative around ideas, how to sort of be more ideas driven? Are there ways of behaving or thinking that you could encourage people that they might find helpful? Being more critical, I suppose.
I promote the idea of an idea a day, as you know. Ideas come in all shapes and sizes. Some of them are insignificant, but they're still worth having. Exercise. That's an exercise to have an idea. And so, part of those ideas can be based on criticism. Looking at road signs, for instance, just driving along the road.
Why do they put four miles and a quarter? Why don't they just say four miles? Say, the painting of a quarter. So it's sillier than things like that. Oh, so what you're saying, an idea is coming from critiquing what you're seeing around you. It's not, I might have misunderstood that in terms of thinking it's a criticism incoming to me saying No, it's criticising other people.
So you're getting ideas from criticising other people, not from being criticised, so to speak. No, oh no, sorry, I misled you. But there is a sense of being self critical might be helpful in terms of generating ideas about how I might Proceed or improve or grow. You don't feel that's part of it or not? No, I don't.
You don't. So, so you're just looking around you looking at that could be improved by this or that. Yeah, I think self criticism is a bit negative, isn't it? I don't know. Do you? I don't do much of it. That might be a very good idea. I think if I take this away, do a lot less of it. I think that's a good idea.
So, but an idea a day. So it's like doing a bit of gym exercise, you're saying, but it could be a big idea or a small idea, couldn't it? Yeah. It doesn't matter, but you're saying it's a good idea to clock that you've had an idea today. Yeah, just keep it front of the agenda. And you're still doing that. Yeah.
Yeah. Try to. And you are 91 years old , so. Well that's pretty cool. I mean, I think, you know, so I think having a new idea every day, getting 'em past you. The trouble , well, getting you to come here was hard , so, you know, that's, uh, so you are still having business ideas, when you say getting them past me is the trouble.
Yeah. Uh, so that. No, and I, and I value that hugely. But as you said earlier, in my defense, sometimes you have too many ideas. But ideas as a currency, I think, is, is your key message, really, that it's the basis The lack of ideas nationally. Lack of ideas nationally, yeah. How do we solve these problems?
Through the people, in some way. There's no mechanism by which somebody who has an idea for the state can put it forward. So, you're thinking that, you know, everyone's looking to the Chancellor or the Prime Minister to solve the country's problems, when we could all play a part. They've got a Department of Innovation, but I don't know how much innovation comes from it.
But a Department of Ideas. That has to have an idea a day. Well, it would do, a Department of Ideas. You'd hope! It might not be very productive. No, using the public. Yeah, but it'd have to surface a good one every day to improve the country. That would be a good idea, I agree. There is a shortage of good ideas.
I wrote an article, which you know I've been talking to you recently about it, 20 years ago in the Financial Times, saying how they could change the taxation system to benefit national health. And the last few weeks I've read that France adopted that system, more or less. What was the idea? People ought to, if they can afford to pay for their treatment, or any government service, you pay for it.
But initially we've all got a credit card, government credit card, and you present that against any bills that come from the government. Government offering services don't know whether it's your money or the state's money, so you probably get a better service there, they're thinking it's state money.
It's your, your money. So you have a, you're like an account holder. Yeah, it could be a citizen card as well. Citizen's account. And they're doing that in France, but not here. Yeah, and it's benefited the system enormously about it. But nobody, in the financial times, nobody picked it up. No. Do you think they don't pick up the Financial Times?
Who reads the Financial Times? I don't know, I mean you'd hope some people would see that and think it was a good idea. You thought the Financial Times might have furthered it. That's interesting because that sort of frustration around your ideas not being heard was what got you going on your own in the first place.
Yeah. And, and that's a frustration that I think people everywhere must feel who have ideas, because, you know, it is very difficult to necessarily persuade other people to, to try things, you have to try them yourself in the end. That's what I like about podcasts. You can talk to whoever you like, wherever you want, whenever you like, about what you want, and if anyone's interested in listening, they can listen to it, and if they're not, they can switch it off.
But it's just a way of sharing ideas. But it's like the media, isn't it? It's another form of media. Doesn't mean they're going to do anything about it. We want to go up a stage further and so somebody, somebody's listening. That's what I was told many years ago, that listening occurs, or communication occurs in the mind of the listener.
You know, you might be sort of communicating or thinking you're communicating, but if no one's listening, no one's hearing, and no one acts upon it, Who cares? Yeah. So maybe the sort of, the sort of dialogue is in need of redesign so that ideas surface. Somebody picking them up. Surface more and people pick them up.
They ought to be more important in companies. Prioritizing innovation and ideas should be a national endeavor. That's your message. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. I think that's a good place to finish. Thanks for coming to talk to me today in your business school. It's been a great pleasure, and I hope you've enjoyed it too.
The fire's still burning, which is a good sign. Yeah, it's done well. Thank you, Dan, for joining on all about business. You know that I'm your host, James Reed, chairman and CEO of Reed, a family run recruitment and philanthropy company. But what I'm really here to say is happy birthday. See you next time.
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