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In this episode of all about business, James sits down with Oscar-nominated Producer Lisa Bryer OBE, and Day One Trust CEO Charlie Kennard MBE. Together, they break down a practical masterclass in rapid business execution, industry-led talent pipelines, and building teams that deliver under high-stakes pressure.
Lisa shares how turning a 24-hour corporate bankruptcy into the birth of Cowboy Films, proved that operational agility outweighs legacy credentials. Charlie details how partnering directly with major global enterprises created a sustainable, job-ready workforce model that prioritises work-ethic discipline, and real-world execution over academic theory.
This episode gives a clear blueprint for building talent pipelines in your own sector, turning unexpected crises into business momentum, and instilling non-negotiable professional behaviours across your workforce.
03:53 Lisa builds Cowboy Films
07:24 Charlie starts The Schools
18:54 who The School is for
26:21 behaviours for career success
37:14 industry-led curriculum
40:06 alumni success stories
57:33 advice for creatives
Links Follow James Reed on LinkedIn: James Reed CBE | LinkedIn
Follow Charlie Kennard MBE on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charliekennard
Find out more about London Screen Academy and their work here: https://www.lsa.ac.uk/
Find out more about Comby Films and their work here: https://www.cowboyfilms.co.uk/
Find out more about Day One Trust and their work here: https://www.dayonetrust.co.uk/
Submit your application to Reed’s Entrepreneurs Fund for a chance to win a £20,000 grant: https://www.reed.com/entrepreneurs
[00:01:43] Well, today on All About Business, I'm really delighted to welcome not one guest, but two, and we're gonna be talking about how to build businesses and careers in the creative industries. Um, first I'd like to introduce Lisa Briar. Um, Lisa's an [00:02:00] award-winning film producer and the founder of Cowboy Films, which made very influential music videos for artists such as David Bowie and The Cure, and also the wonderful film, The Last King of Scotland.
[00:02:12] Um, Lisa is one of the co-founders of the London Screen Academy, and this is an amazing free sixth form school for young people pursuing careers in film and TV, which I've been lucky enough to visit. And that brings me to Charlie. Charlie Kennard is a British education leader and social entre- entrepreneur focused on helping young people access careers in the creative industries.
[00:02:36] Charlie was the headteacher at the London Screen Academy from July 9, 2019 to March last year, and is now CEO of Day One Trust, which has more than one such academy. Um, so I'm really delighted to welcome you both. Thanks so much for coming into the studio. Um, I'm really looking forward to this conversation because young people so deserve our [00:03:00] help and support at the moment, um, with the job market being as tough as it is, and so many of them I know love the idea of working in creative industries.
[00:03:08] So what does it take to be an entrepreneur in this sector, or indeed, to have a good career in it, is what we'll be exploring. So Lisa, I'd like to start with you, if I may. Mm. How, how did Cowboy Films come about? How did you start this brilliant business? Okay, so if you take yourself back to the '80s and music videos and films and vibrant London and the start of MTV, I was at a huge company in Golden Square, MGMM, with directors all over the place, producers all over the place.
[00:03:41] We were in the middle, myself and my partner, Tim Pope, who is a wonderful music video director, we were in the middle of shooting a Cure video and a Honey Monster Sugar Puffs commercial. So hang on. A Cure video is the band? The band The Cure. Okay, not a cure for some medical- Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. The band [00:04:00] The Cure.
[00:04:00] The Cure. I want to just establish that first. Absolutely. Uh. And, um- And a Sugar Puffs. And a Honey... Do you remember? Yes, I- Uh, yeah ... remember both well. So right in the middle of those, and literally the MD of the company came in to my office and said, "We've just gone bankrupt, and you have 24 hours to get out."
[00:04:20] And we were literally in the middle of these two big productions. So I picked up- all our work, did a deal with Young & Rubicon, who we were doing the Honey, Honey Monster commercial with, and said, "Listen, we'll finish off here. We'll finish off the Cure video. We'll take 50% of the production markup." And with that, uh, I set up Cowboy Films.
[00:04:45] My partner said, "Okay, what are we gonna name it?" Uh, I said, "You choose, you're the creative." And he said, "Well, you're the old cow and I'm the boy, let's call it Cowboy Films." That's kind of rude. Is that how it came about? So that's h- That's what it is ... that's how it came about. Right. And we started- Mm ... [00:05:00] in my old flat, and because having the, the, the business hat on, for me, I didn't wanna go into offices or have an overhead until we'd actually got some money in the bank.
[00:05:12] And once we'd finished off the commercial and The Cure music video, and I think then we were doing a live concert at the Albert Hall with the, the Matt Johnson. So we did a couple of productions from the flat, and then gradually we got offices, staff, and that was the s- the start of Cowboy Films. And t- what, what, what really strikes me about this story is y- when it, y- it began from what sounded like a bit of a disaster.
[00:05:39] Yeah. We've gone bust. Yeah. And you turned it that, turned that disaster and into an opportunity. I never wanted to be in a position again where I couldn't pay my crew, and you know, when a company goes bankrupt, the people who really suffer are the crew. Um, and I swore to myself that whatever I [00:06:00] did next, I would have some kind of control, which is why we s- we started Cowboy, and we were able to pay off the crew, um, who were absolutely fantastic from those two productions, and then continue.
[00:06:13] But it really was, it was one of those things where within 24 hours, this building that had been doing David Bowie commercials, feature films, in fact, Eric Fellner was upstairs doing, um, Sid and Nancy, uh, a fantastic feature film. We were all in the middle of this amazing work, and we had 24 hours to, to vacate the building.
[00:06:39] But you did something positive with that. Yeah. And Sid and Nancy came out, 'cause I remember it was about Sid Vicious, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay. So Charlie, um, what industry gap were you, were you trying to solve with the, the schools that you started? I mean, you, you came into this sector from a different direction.
[00:06:56] Yeah, yeah. Tell me about that journey. Yeah. Yeah. So, so I'm a teacher, so I [00:07:00] studied economics at university, and I always thought I'd be a management consultant 'cause that was everything, the, the cool thing that all the economics kids did. So I did a program called Teach First, which allowed me to teach for two years, but kind of kept the dream of working for one of the big three consulting companies.
[00:07:12] And that's still going, isn't it? That's still going, yeah. It's a good idea for lots of people to think about- Ab- ... actually in its own right. Yeah. Yeah. It takes graduates and places them in schools- Uh ... where there's high needs. Uh, and so for the graduate it's great 'cause you get a real sense of purpose. You get to kind of, uh, learn huge amount of leadership skills, which I guess we- we'll talk about later, which I think then can be applied to anything.
[00:07:30] Um, but you also develop and keep options open. So I did that. So I'm ta- I was a teacher. I never, I never went into the industry. I stayed in education, and here I am some 20 years later. Just like by way of context, our schools, we have two schools. They're 16 to 19. They're very vocational, practical, and they, they work across games, music, and film and television.
[00:07:50] So they're training young people for those industries. How many students? Uh, so we have 900 students at London Screen Academy, which is film and TV and the screen industries, and then at East London Arts of Music or [00:08:00] ELAM, we have 300 students studying music and, and games primarily. Um, and so I guess the question of what gaps were we trying to, to fill when we started, those industries that I just, uh- That's almost like a negative, like there was a gap.
[00:08:13] I think the, the thing for us when we started was those industries that we've just said, so film and TV and the stories Lisa just said, music and games, like the UK is a global powerhouse in those things. We punch well above our weight when it comes to those industries. So there's a few industries we're really good at.
[00:08:29] The creative industry is one of them. I think financial services historically we've been globally very strong at, maybe pharmaceuticals. So it would be kind of remiss of me to say, well, there were loads of gaps we were trying to plug. What we were trying to do is go, wow, look at these industries. We want them to continue to be a superpower in this country, so if we can ensure that there is a supply of talented, skillful people.
[00:08:49] And I think, I guess the gap or the, the opportunity cost we saw in those industries, um, it's like a very well-known story that those industries, um, aren't very representative of society [00:09:00] as a whole. Um, you know, there's lots of middle class people who are thriving in those industries. They're not very diverse in terms of ethnic backgrounds, and that's a problem on two lenses.
[00:09:09] That's one, just a fairness issue. It's like that's not a good idea. It's also like a commercial issue because imagine if you said, "We're gonna open up the talent pipeline where anyone," how much better we would be in terms of the output of those industries. Um, so our vision, I always say kind of if you wanted to be a doctor, a lawyer, a banker in this country, they're hard things to do.
[00:09:29] It's pretty transparent how you do it. You go and do these A-levels, you do this inter-in-internship, and that's kind of open to anyone. If you wanna go and work a cowboy or you wanna go and be a producer or you wanna be a music video director, it's way more opaque, and therefore the talent pool is really shrunk 'cause it's kind of who you know, and you, you create this.
[00:09:47] So what we were trying to do is go, let's ensure these industries continue by making sure that there's an incredible supply of talented young people, and let's widen that so every young person has an opportunity, and the outcome with better industries we would expect [00:10:00] to see, I think. Did you encounter any resistance to getting these started, these schools?
[00:10:04] Uh, not really. I think there's a really interesting leadership. So people always ask and, and expect more. So Elam started in 2014 when Michael Gove launched the Free Schools, uh, initiative. And that was your initiative, Elam. So Elam was one of the first free schools, but I think that- Oh. And lots of those free schools have thrived, quite a few didn't, and I think the, the really magical story for us is we never set out to build a school.
[00:10:27] Um, so my brother's a very successful musician. I was in education, and I said, "Isn't it mad that all the kids that I teach are more talented than you, yet you've gone on and headlined Glastonbury and sold all these records?" Uh- What's his name? Just so if people don't know. He's in a band called Chase & Status.
[00:10:42] Right. He's had six albums with Universal. Right. He's had number one records. He's toured the world. But these people you were coming across were better than him? Yeah, like when he was 15- Okay ... he wasn't the most, he wasn't the most talented musician. Right. Well, that's good to know. He had the privilege that we had of being- Yeah
[00:10:52] able to like, you know, have developed some professional skills- Mm-hmm ... have th-the ability- Hmm ... to drop out of university and spend time in a studio. [00:11:00] Um- And he didn't punch me in the face when I said that to him. He had seen it himself 'cause he taught in Manchester for a little bit after he dropped out to pay for his- So what you're saying is he and, well, you and your family had a sort of hinterland that gave you a bit of freedom to- Totally
[00:11:12] be creative and do stuff that other people wouldn't have because they didn't have the resources. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so we were gonna set- I was gonna say, "Let's bring some kids from my school into your studio and try and inspire them." And so we didn't start from a point of let's build a school and let's try and justify why that school needs to exist.
[00:11:29] We started from the conversation of let's bring some kids into the studio. We spoke to a few people from the world of education, from the world of industry, and that snowballed into us setting up a school. Um, so I think it was, the school was driven by demand, not us trying to justify demand. So it was actually more people saying, "You need to do more than this.
[00:11:47] You need to do X, Y- But then you had to get support from the government or the- Yeah ... local authority to finance it, I'm imagining. Yeah, so we went through the approval process- Mm ... with the Department for Education. But, um, it, it kind of snowballed, and [00:12:00] we couldn't stop it because I think the, the reason for its existence was so strong.
[00:12:04] Um, and so now when we try and build new projects and things like that, I think just any, any entrepreneur, anyone building anything, like testing to trying to find reasons why it will fail and understanding those, 'cause you will have riddled with bias about your own idea. And so I think it's a nice story for us of, you know, we never wanted to set up a school.
[00:12:21] So what year did it open? It opened in September 2014, you know. Fantastic. And then five years later, we met five of the biggest film producers in the world, and we opened the film school. Well, let's hear about that. I mean, that's a logical segue. So what happened? How did you, how did you come to meet and, and what, and what was- Well, it, it was-
[00:12:38] the sort of genesis of the film school? I mean, it was really interesting because after Last King of Scotland, um, being a mom of 10-year-old boys, I felt I had to do, spend a little bit more time at home. But, uh, 'cause production is 24/7, 24/7, 24/7. But I wanted to sort of [00:13:00] immerse myself in, in education because I was very dyslexic, never passed an exam in my life, and the one thing that I'd missed through my sort of adult life and setting up Cowboy Films was the background of education.
[00:13:17] You know, I'm a bit of a street fighter, and I have a good nose for people, but the education side was very lacking. And I got myself involved with a PRU school. Takes kids who have basically failed, and, uh, it's their last sort of resort before Borstal, um, or prison So an approved, approved school An approved school Right And really there wasn't, sadly by that stage, there wasn't that much you could do 'cause these kids were already, you know, they w- they were already- Quite damaged
[00:13:55] not really able to be taught. They were very damaged. So my [00:14:00] dream was to start something that would combine education and the creative industries, which had been so good to me. But as I discovered at Cowboy Films, there's only really, as, as Charlie said, the, the people that I was employing, the people who were coming for the jobs were very middle class, upper class.
[00:14:21] They were always friends of people. It was a very small circle. And I w- I wanted to do something that was much more inclusive. You know, the reason why I am where I am is I had that infrastructure growing up, and I wanted to do something for young people where they didn't have that kind of infrastructure.
[00:14:42] And at the same time, Tim Bevan and Eric Fellner of Working Title, who are really old friends of mine, were noticing that on all their film sets there was no diversity. So we got together one day and said, "Look, what can we do?" And I said, "I think-"[00:15:00]
[00:15:00] I'd had a little bit of experience at the approved school. I think we can do something through education. I think we can combine education with the creative industries and start a sixth form or start a school that actually to start with we thought 14 to, to 19, which would have failed. Um, and luckily actually it was the guy running Islington Council who said, "I will support you, but it needs to be 16 to 19, not 14, 'cause it's too young."
[00:15:28] Um, so we thought, "Okay." So you go there sort of after GCSEs. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So GCSEs- Yeah ... and then we look at your results, and if you've passed a certain amount and come and have an interview, then hopefully we can give you a place. So that's what we did. Tim and I and Eric got together, um, with a friend of ours who was actually working at the DfE, who was very keen to, to do something that would involve [00:16:00] skills, which in the end would im- would get you jobs.
[00:16:03] Because for us, Tim, myself, Eric, we, none of us went to university. We all started in jobs early on in life, but we had contacts. Right. And that was the big difference. We wanted to do something that kids could come to with no infrastructure, no contacts, no uncle who was in the industry, and we would supply them with the contacts and- Fantastic
[00:16:29] the infrastructure. So just so people know, where is the school? How do you apply? Um, and, you know, what's the sort of w- when did it open? Just give me a little heads up. I'll let Charlie talk about how you apply and, and the curriculum, but we opened... This is- we're now in our sixth year. It was very tough getting it open.
[00:16:50] We were lucky we had the support of the DfE. Um, but building that building was a m- is a massive building. We have 900 students. And it was built new. [00:17:00] It was built new- Yeah ... but I think because, because we are film producers and we're used to solving problems day in, day out, and we were so passionate about doing something within the creative industries and education, we just didn't take no for an answer.
[00:17:18] And I think we were able to prove, especially when Charlie came on board, that you really could do what we were trying to do, which was to, for our students to end up with a degree that would either take them into university or into jobs. I think Charlie is much more eloquent at being able to tell you exactly how that happens.
[00:17:42] Sounds like you're gonna do that bit, Charlie. But how to apply, Bill? How we- How to apply and, and how to get in. How do you get... Well, I'm just thinking people listening m- might obviously wanna know more about it nowadays. Yeah, yeah. But also if they, if they want to apply, how do, how do you go about doing that?
[00:17:54] Yeah, yeah. I think the more interesting question for that, I mean, not that I'm asking the questions, but is, uh, who's it for? How do you apply? You go [00:18:00] onto the website- Yeah ... you make an application. So the website's what? Give us the address. Uh, lsa.ac.uk. Right. Or just type London Screen Academy into the browser of your choice and you'll find it.
[00:18:08] Fantastic. Um- Well, it's good to get that one nailed down. Yeah, yeah. So then tell us the more interesting bit. C- who's it for is an interesting- Yeah ... thing 'cause I think some people assume like, oh, you know, uh, like am I massively into film or, or makeup or costume and design. Uh, and some of our kids are.
[00:18:22] Some of our kids will come to us at 16 having made films already, having won awards and, and, you know, hugely recognized stuff. But we would say like there will be kids in playgrounds that are braiding hair, right? And don't really know what they wanna do, but everyone goes to them to get their hair braided.
[00:18:38] Um, and that kid will get to the point of options after GCSE and go, "I guess I'll do, don't really know. Like maybe English, business studies, and biology," which is great. A-levels are important and good. But we would say, well, that kid, there's a massive demand for that skill that you've demonstrated. Braiding hair in terms of hair and makeup, and particularly hair from underrepresented groups.
[00:18:56] You could turn that into a career, a really fruitful, really interesting career. [00:19:00] Or the kid that just loves telling stories, or the kid that tells really funny stories on TikTok. It's like you could be good in post-production. Um, so I think what, what we look for are the kids that maybe haven't considered themselves working in film and TV, or realizing that actually they have demonstrated all the skills.
[00:19:14] They might just love telling stories. They might love art. They might love DT. And we would say, "You know, you could design sets. You could build sets for film, for TV, for theater." And they might go, "No, I never considered that. I was just gonna do business something and something in A-level." So the, the golden egg for us is finding those kids.
[00:19:31] The kids that love film will come to us. But so if, you know, a, a young person or a parent is just thinking, "Actually, that's my child. Hold on a second," because these are really interesting careers where you can earn good money, do really interesting things and use skills that maybe you hadn't realized- Yeah
[00:19:47] you could. That's brilliant. And, and it's raising awareness in a wide network- Yeah, yeah ... to make that happen. Absolutely. So what, what, what are the skills that are sort of actually missing from the industry today? What are the, what are the [00:20:00] producers, directors, filmmakers, what are they craving? What are they saying, we need more people who can do this?
[00:20:05] I think the craving, you know, it's, a lot of it is attitude. You know, we have a very different... I think after COVID, um, it's very difficult to find young people who are prepared to get up at 4:00, 5:00 o'clock in the morning and do a very long day, and, um, and work really, really hard. You know, this working from home has become a huge elephant in the room.
[00:20:36] Right. And, and I think- So that's getting in the way ... I think it is. Oh. I think it is. I think what we've been finding recently is, I mean, the whole work environment has changed, whereas film and television is still film and television. You've still gotta film your TV show. You've still gotta film your feature film.
[00:20:55] So just, maybe just explain why do you have to get up at 4:00 in the morning to work in film and [00:21:00] television? Because you start, if you're an actor in hair and makeup, you always start filming at about 8:00 o'clock. So if you're an actor- 'Cause it's daylight ... Exactly, because it's daylight. So if you're on location, you need to use every bit of daylight you can- Mm
[00:21:16] because time is money. And if you're in the art department or in the lighting department, you've gotta get on set really, really early so that you can prepare the lights, you can prepare the, the art department, the set, whatever you're building, so the moment the sun comes out, you're ready to shoot. But this is interesting, Lisa, 'cause what I'm hearing is, I mean, you can show someone how to do lighting or hair or...
[00:21:42] but you can't necessarily make them get up at 4:00 o'clock in the morning. Absolutely. Which is why, for me, you know, education together with skills is so important because the other thing that we do with our, with our students is it's the [00:22:00] soft skills. It's the attendance, the attitude. I always say to our, our kids before they leave, "You're probably gonna go on, and you're probably gonna start as a runner, either in the art department or in the production side or post-production, but you'll start probably making tea and coffee.
[00:22:21] Now, the only way you're gonna- Go up the rank by, is by making the best cup of coffee your boss has ever, ever had, and you put 150% into that, and the same with your cup of tea. You're always available. You're always smiling. So how do they react to this advice? They look at, must look a bit incredulous, right?
[00:22:43] They look at me as though I'm absolutely mad 'cause they've- Yeah ... just done a couple of years of, you know, making short films and, and- Yeah ... you know, learning so much. But you still say to them that that's- And I still say to them, "And it's all about turning up on time. If you have to be there at 7:00 in the morning, [00:23:00] you get there at 10 to 7:00 in the morning.
[00:23:02] You show willingness, you hold your head up, and you will get noticed." And do you think, Charlie, you're able to get that message across to your students? I mean, do you start really in the early in the morning, or do you have sort of- Uh ... opportunities for them to be tested in this way? No. T- Well, I, I would slightly challenge what Lisa says a little bit in like- Go on
[00:23:21] in a healthy way where L- Lisa, you're from a generation where you cut your teeth on no ex- and achieved phenomenal success in the industry that I describe being world-class, was built on the back of people that did that element of work. And there is understandably like a, a shift and a frustration, but I think there's a middle point because I think you could argue that, um, some of those cultures aren't the most inclusive cultures in the world because...
[00:23:43] And I'm not saying early m- early mornings are fine. If you need to shoot early 'cause of the light, that's fine. Anyone can get up early, surely. Yeah. But like we're gonna do this at zero cost, at no, you know, what happens if I want to be a mother or have a family? Does, is my life not s- is not compatible with the world of film and TV?
[00:23:58] Do I have to go and find [00:24:00] something else? It, it, we should find a middle point, and I think young people more broadly are pushing back and I, I, that I struggle with that as well, but, but I don't think it's wholly bad. So I think there is a middle spot we will find where these industries, not just film and TV, are actually more inclusive.
[00:24:15] But I can... It's frustrating when you're in it because you're having to, to manage those two things. But, but I think there's a fair challenge to that which we'll find a middle spot where things can evolve and change and not be not rigorous or super successful. They can, and I think by being self-employed, that helps because you can spend a couple of months on a film working 24/7, and it becomes your life.
[00:24:41] And then because you're making really, really good money- Yeah ... you can then take a break and take a couple of months off and be at home or Just rest, whatever you want to do. And that's one of the great things about the creative industries is you're often [00:25:00] self-employed, you're your own boss, and you can work as hard or as little as you want to.
[00:25:05] Mm. This is very interesting 'cause I'm h- I'm hearing slightly different things from you both. And I, and I, and I was thinking my next question is, you know, what do partners like Netflix, Disney, Sony, you know, these big companies, what do they want from young talent now? Yeah. Yeah. I mean- Well, the thing that we are, I, I should say I'm completely aligned on are we break our curriculum down into knowledge, skills, and behavior.
[00:25:27] So, so things you need to know. So I know- Mm ... how a set works, I know things that I can do, so I can operate X camera, I can use... And, and then the professional behaviors. And I would say without doubt, kind of what Lisa said, the thing you're tested on in the entry point of your career is not the, not really the, like, can you operate that camera?
[00:25:44] It will be the professional behavior. So can you operate in this dynamic environment where lots of different people want different things of you? Um, you have to read the room, you have to communicate to different people in different way. There will be potentially talent from multiple different territories and different people of different seniority, and that's a really difficult skill.
[00:25:59] [00:26:00] And I think there's, I think kids from privileged backgrounds have a disadvantage there because if you grow up like I did in a middle-class background, you are used to being around people who are in employment. You're more likely to have been in, uh, environments like this or going on a set or being in an office building.
[00:26:16] You're more likely to have been told you're great for your whole life and full of this sort of sense of self-esteem and privilege. And that's a disadvantage? That's an advantage because- Oh, you just said disadvantage. Sorry, I meant that. No, that's, that's what I was- I was thinking is that- That's an advantage I was waiting to find out how it was a disadvantage.
[00:26:29] Uh, uh- And then, and you know, I grew up- Uh ... at dinner parties where I was handing out canapes for my mom's friends and all those sorts of things, so talking to different people and, and all of those things that are steeped in- Yeah ... like my privilege. So when I step into a production company, it's not completely new world to me, and I'm able to suddenly, like- No, no, I can see that.
[00:26:49] It's like, yeah- But- ... I mean, you're more accustomed to that ... and that's what you're being assessed on, I think, more than- So when you, when these companies h- bring people in the first instance, they're looking for that sort of behavioral awareness. I think, I, I mean, you, you'll know this, [00:27:00] right? I think every company, when you have an intern, what you're assessing the intern on is, like, did that intern, like, make me-- Was it awkward being around them?
[00:27:06] Were they able to kind of hold themself in the space? Were they proactive enough but not too proactive? Um, you know, did we like having them around? Were they genuinely useful? It's usually that sort of
[00:27:19] level, isn't it? Yeah. And that's- Uh ... the soft skills, and that's so important, is building the self-confidence. So knowledge, skills, behavior, so they sort of fuse into each other, don't they? Uh- Yeah. And if we could just do the behaviors, I think we would- What would be the key- ... our kids wouldn't come to us
[00:27:31] behaviors that you would say you want to, your students to leave with? Yeah. Yeah. Good question. So I think communication's a huge one, I think, and there's lots. Communication includes listening, it includes being able to articulate your idea, uh, one-on-one to groups of people. I think that's, like, so key if you're good at that.
[00:27:49] I'd agree. Um- I think being able to, like, self-reflect is really important. Uh, I think having some resilience and, you know, seeing failure as an opportunity to grow. Um, [00:28:00] so I think all of those things. And as you kind of look at the, the, the future industries and, you know, y- you... AI and everyone's like, "Oh my God, what's gonna happen tomorrow?"
[00:28:07] Consistently, whether you're talking about Demis from DeepMind, who's kind of, you know, the pre-eminent person talking about the future, he'll say those three things. When people are going, "Do you need to code or not?" He'll go, "You need to be able to, you know, communicate. You need to be able to demonstrate re- resilience, leadership," da da da.
[00:28:23] So, and that's the same in any industry, I think. And also I think the humility to ask questions. Yeah, yeah. I think is really, really important to feel that you can actually ask a question. That you can say, "I don't know what you're talking about. Would you explain, please?" Yes. Mm. So there is a humility to curiosity, isn't there?
[00:28:43] Yeah. Mm. Because you're, you're, you're demonstrating you don't know it all- Yeah Yeah ... by asking the questions. Yeah. And I think encouraging or giving people the confidence to do that- Yeah ... is important. Absolutely. They're not expected to know it all. I always ask people what acronyms mean. You know, in business meetings- Yeah, yeah
[00:28:59] [00:29:00] there's always people, someone using acronyms. And the number of times they don't actually know- Yeah ... it's quite interesting. No, no. So, so... But it's easier to- Yeah, but you wouldn't know that as a youngster coming in. No, absolutely. You'd think this person's really knowledgeable. Yeah. That's an easier...
[00:29:10] Imagine, so that's a good example. Imagine if you're a kid who grew up in a single-parent household, felt very, like, out, you know, this isn't my space. If I ask that question, you might be wondering, what, am I telling everyone I'm stupid? So you would shy away. So you need the confidence- Yeah ... to be able to ask that, and the self-assurance, like, "No, I'm really comfortable in myself, so I'm gonna ask the stupid question."
[00:29:29] Yeah. Which probably 90% of people in the room want to ask as well, but... They do- It's so, yeah ... in my experience. Exactly. That sort of... It's so important to be able to ask- Yeah ... that question. Yeah. Very interesting. So h- how difficult was it to get the school off the ground? You know, you, you, how did you convince, um, industry partners?
[00:29:49] You know, uh, uh, it sounded like you were sort of pushing at an open door- I mean, first we had- ... in a sense, but ... to convince the, the Department of Education. Right. And we did that [00:30:00] by, Tim and Eric had a, a huge film down at, at Pinewood, I think it was Mary Queen of Scots, and we bussed down about 30 to 40 people from the Department of Education to show them how many jobs it actually takes to make a film.
[00:30:18] Because up until then- Interesting ... I think they thought we were a bit sort of wishy-washy. It was quite interesting. Yes, they wanted to do something where 16 to 19-year-olds were learning more skills so they could go out and get a job and put food on their plate, but they didn't really understand the, the film and TV industry, and that was a game changer.
[00:30:39] We took them down that w- we showed them the 180 jobs. They went around all the different departments. They saw what the, the accounts department was doing, what the art department was doing, what the post-production de- department was doing. And after that- They gave us what we needed to build the school and [00:31:00] put in big studios and everything that you, you saw when you came and, and, and visited.
[00:31:06] And then it was really a question of finding the right people to open the school, and that's where we were very, very lucky to come across Charlie. Because we were told to open the school, we had to be part of a multi-academy trust. It couldn't just be the London Screen Academy. So I went off to... I was told about Elam, Charlie's school, went off to the East End to have a look at the school, met Charlie.
[00:31:33] They need to be part of a trust, and very quickly we came together as two schools, and that's when we really started to take off because then we had the expertise of the founders to do with the industry. We had Charlie to run the school and to take care of the education, the, the curriculum. And then I think because our co-founders are [00:32:00] David Heyman, Harry Potter, now Bond; Barbara Broccoli, who was, was Bond; Tim and Eric at Working Title, who do every single film under the sun.
[00:32:11] Um, because they're putting billions back into the film industry day in, day out, when we went to Netflix, to Disney, to Warner Brothers, to Universal, it was sort of a no-brainer because we were saying to them, "Listen, we are the film industry, and we need to make sure that these incredible jobs are open to everyone."
[00:32:36] And that means kids from very tough backgrounds with no infrastructure who wouldn't in a million years, they go and they watch a film and they think, "Oh my God, I would love to be part of this industry," but they would have no idea how to. And They absolutely embraced us straight away and said- These big companies
[00:32:57] we, these big companies, we will back [00:33:00] it. So it's a real, it's a real public-private sector collaboration. Absolutely, yeah. 100%. Uh, a good example of that. But it's interesting it began with you taking some people from the Department of Education- Yeah ... to see how a film's made. That was a game changer. Because it- Seeing is believing is a big deal.
[00:33:14] Yeah, you have to show people. Oh. There's nothing like, like I was at, I really wanted you to come down to LSA because I knew if you came down and you saw what we were doing, and you saw the scope of the building, you would understand. Yes. Whereas if I said, "Oh, y- James, yes, I've been involved in opening the school, and we do a bit of h-", you know, y- you can't, you've got to see it.
[00:33:37] And, and when- Well- ... they came down to Pinewood, they were blown away. So m- my impression for people listening and visiting was that there was a huge energy around the place. Yeah. And people were really engaged with the wide variety of tasks and things that they were doing. Oh. At the time, it felt like a really great place to be.
[00:33:56] We have 900 students, [00:34:00] teenagers running around this building, and as Charlie will say, you could hear a pin drop sometimes. When they're in class, they're in class. I mean, when they're not, and they're running around and getting to the cafe, I mean, you can really hear, hear them, and it's fantastic- Yeah
[00:34:15] 'cause they're all learning and, and doing. So it's been open six years now, thereabouts, you said around to. How, how, how are you getting on? I mean, what's happened to the people who have gone through and how, how, how's it working for the students, I suppose? Is it delivering what's on the tin? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:33] Ho- hopefully, yeah. So there's a few different ways of looking at it. So it is a school, so it's Ofsted Outstanding in all categories. So just that metric is important fundamentally for us. Like I want- Oh, that's very impressive. Well done. Yeah ... I want young people to know they're coming to a place where it's- I mean, that's not an easy thing to achieve.
[00:34:47] It isn't. Oh. No, and it's a, it's a lovely report to read. Uh, and then in terms of like outcomes and the qualification they do, they significantly outperform the national, as they should based on the resources we have, but they do very, very well. Uh, we [00:35:00] make them all do maths and English in addition to film as well.
[00:35:02] And then kind of, then the most important thing is the alumni, where do they go on to? Um, and we're having really good success there as well. So lots will go straight into the industry when they leave us. Some will go into higher education depending on, um, what their pathway is, and some will go into kind of further study apprenticeships and so on and so forth.
[00:35:21] So, you know, we have a list of kids that are doing everything from set up their own businesses to working on some of the biggest film and TV shows in the world. And what's fun now is, the really exciting part for us is they, they're moving from that kind of trainee level, uh, up through to the kind of middle management tier, and they're starting to hire as well.
[00:35:39] And that's when you're starting to see a really interesting change because- A lot of our students don't look like the, the crew that came before them, who were brilliant as well. And so they're starting to be like, "Oh, the diversity and the inclusion in the crew is, is looking and feeling a bit different," which we believe will, you will be able to tell better stories, um, because you, you have more access to more [00:36:00] talent.
[00:36:00] So that's good. Uh, uh, how, how important is it that the school feels connected to the industry? You know, there's obviously an overlap that's very significant, which is different to many colleges and schools. How important is it? It's, like, absolutely critical. So that's, that's absolutely critical. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:36:15] Mm. So you, you, uh, like you could come and- Wouldn't work without that. Yeah, no. You- Mm. Well, 'cause you could come into our school and be like, "Oh, these kids are having a great time. They're doing all these things." And then they could go and apply for a job, and Netflix would say, "Yeah, but you haven't learned any of the things that we need you to learn."
[00:36:26] So we design, like, the majority of our projects with the industry. So every year we get huge number of people from industry to look at the project, review it. Does it still work? Does it not? Is this what the industry needs? Let's go again. Oh, so you're really specific about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So we've got a post-production project recently, which I think is a really good case study.
[00:36:44] Uh, and ITV came to us, who obviously, you know, have The Voice, which is a really big TV show, and they said, "We're struggling to find enough, um, editors that can turn the, the daily rush and the content around quick enough," 'cause it requires quick edits. Mm. Um, and so we said, "Brilliant. Well, let's do [00:37:00] a project where we get students to work on some of the actual rushes from The Voice, and they have 24 hours to turn them around, and they have a teacher that supports them doing that, and then we send them to you, and you give feedback."
[00:37:11] Um, so it's great. It's a real project for the young people. They're working with real content with a real client, being producers at ITV. Um, and we're developing the skills and the behaviors for them. Yeah, I can see that being super motivational. Yeah. It's, it's fun, but also relevant. Um, and so what have the students taught you about the next generation of creatives?
[00:37:30] What have you learned from them? Yeah, that's a good question. Well, to the b- to the point before, like, there it's a, it, it is a different generation. They have demands over how they want the world to look and to feel, and that can be jarring with the world that I've come from and the world that you've come from.
[00:37:44] But I think, I think this genera- you know, I think there's really incredible leaders in this generation. And if that's how they want to set up the world in terms of making it more inclusive, you know, putting wellbeing at the heart, I think they'll find a happy balance where they can do that in a way that allows us to [00:38:00] still create world-class content and do all the incredible things, but make it so it's more accessible to lots of people.
[00:38:05] So, so I find it really inspiring. Sometimes it can be challenging 'cause they want a lot. Uh, and- Well, that's, that means they're ambitious. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if you, if you wanna change the world, you're really ambitious. Totally. AI's a great example. If you come into our school, it's, it, it's shocking.
[00:38:20] Not shocking to me, but surprising I should say, how many of our students are, are ske- are either skeptical or, like, quite anti artificial intelligence in terms of... And it's interesting. It's like that- Oh, it's a threat to them, I imagine. Is it? It's a threat to them. It's the environmental impact. It's their world, and they don't want a different generation deciding what happens to their world and data centers.
[00:38:42] And I, and I think that's really powerful. I think it's- What, you mean, you mean that they see an older generation dumping this technology on them? Yeah. I, I, I wasn't like that when I was 16. When I was in sixth form, I was just plodding through the motions. Um- Oh, we didn't have AI to worry about. Maybe it's that.
[00:38:57] Maybe if AI- That's the- But yeah. I think there's an [00:39:00] active generation of young people, and I think that will be really interesting to see what, what, how they lead and what the world looks like when they're leading. Yeah. And are, are there any student success stories, I mean, to both of you, that particularly stand out that you might wanna share?
[00:39:14] Um, yeah, there's like, there's absolutely tons. There's a really nice one that I... So Elam, there's an artist called K1, uh, K-W-N. She's, uh, they're one of the biggest, uh, they're probably one of the biggest R&B artists in the world at the moment. Um, lots of awards, big in America. And they were being interviewed on Radio 1.
[00:39:32] And I always think with our schools, like, I'm not claiming your success. We were part of your journey and maybe gave you some skills and tools along the way, but if you, if you went off and do your thing. And it's, it's always an interesting question for us, like how much impact did we have on you? You know, you can't measure- Yeah.
[00:39:45] Well, it wasn't harmful. No, exactly. But the telling thing was, there's been loads of, uh, evidence. But- Got you ... so K1, sorry, K1 was being interviewed on, uh, BBC Radio 1 and it's also not cool if you're a musician, I don't think, to say, "I [00:40:00] went to music college-" No ... uh, and I learned. Uh, and K1 did a, you know, sort of a three-minute piece on how powerful the experience of, of Elam had been for their career.
[00:40:10] Fantastic. So it was acknowledged and- Yeah. And the bit that I really liked and thought was a great success story is they, they broke the curriculum down and articulated it better than a brochure would. And for me, that was when I was like, "Okay, you, five years on, you remember what happened on a Tuesday morning, um, and now you're headlining-" So this is fantastic for you to share with other people who might be thinking about coming.
[00:40:31] Yeah. Oh, yeah. Best marketing resource in the world. Absolutely. Yeah. Sounds like it. What about you, Lisa? Have you got a story in mind? I, I would, I would say we... What was Steve McQueen's film called that we sent all- The Blitz ... The Blitz. So- Oh, I watched that. It's good ... one wonderful film. Mm. Great film. And we put, because Tim Bevan from Working Title was producing the film, so he was able to put 17 of our kids into all the different departments on the film [00:41:00] as, as an intern, paid properly.
[00:41:03] Um, and there was a little bit of pushback from some of the departments. Do we really need a 19-year-old? What have they learned at LSA? Will they be able to cope with all these long days? Interesting. Yeah. Are they gonna show up on time? But, you know- That was, uh- ... Tim was producing, so he- Uh ... he was able to make it work.
[00:41:22] And, um- Not only did they all last the film, and it was a very tough film to make, a lot of it on location and then in the studios, but all of them went on with their heads of departments onto their next films. Now that to me is- Oh, so they were retained to do the next film ... they were retained to go on and work with their heads of department on their next films.
[00:41:47] So the skeptics became converts. Completely. Right. And that to me is extraordinary. Absolutely extraordinary. Every single department- Wow. That's a great- Because we, we placed [00:42:00] with them one of our students ... Great endorsement. It, it really is. And that's what it's all about. And, you know, when I go into Working Title Films and, and all their runners and the youngsters who are starting the different departments do come from our schools, and I see them if we have early morning meetings, they're up, they're doing the breakfast, they're getting things ready, and then they're talking about going on to other companies and working on a film here, and then something else there.
[00:42:29] And then one other that I always remember, um, my sister who's a, a presenter at CNBC, we, um... They're very sweet and they always take some of our students, and there was one student about four years ago who literally couldn't say his name. He had chronic shyness. He couldn't hold his head up. Um- But he got there, and within a year and a half, he went [00:43:00] from just making coffee and tea and showing up and to being one of their sort of really creative editors.
[00:43:10] And now he's producing, he's smiling, he's talking, his head is held high. It's extraordinary. I mean, I really didn't think he was gonna stay the course, and he's, he's turned into... You know, he's making a really good salary. He's gotta be 23 now. Fantastic. And it's, you know, 'cause he was given a chance.
[00:43:31] Exactly. Given a chance. And it shows how important work is- Yeah ... to people's wellbeing, confidence. Yeah. Yeah. Life. Yeah. Yeah. Saved my life- Yeah ... work. Yeah. No question. I started work when I was 16, and, you know, I'm 68 and I'm still around, and, and for me it's about work. Yes. And with so many young people not in work at the moment, um- It's a real worry
[00:43:54] your example, what you've created here is a, is a, is a good one that I would hope might be [00:44:00] replicated in other industries and other places. I really hope so because, you know, everyone deserves a chance at being able to get up in the morning and know that they can put food on the plate and also enjoy the day- Yeah
[00:44:15] and get something out of working. Mm. And every single young person deserves that chance. And I think by what we're doing with our 1,300 students is starting to really prove that that is absolutely possible, that skills are essential, and the soft skills. I mean, what you've done in your industry is bring education and the work of the industry much, much more closely together- Exactly
[00:44:43] than is typically the case in education generally- Exactly ... where it's more divorced from the workplace, and that's a message I think is really important- I think it really is ... to bring across. And, you know, sadly we are seeing, uh, a lot of young people leaving university and [00:45:00] not able to get jobs, and they're saying, "Hold on a second, we feel completely and utterly let down.
[00:45:08] You know, you've just put us into huge debt. We owe all this money, and we're not getting jobs. What do we do?" And I think we owe it to the young people to make sure that we can come up with things that will enable all young people who want to work be able to work. Yeah. So- One second. Oh, we've got a
[00:45:34] I mean, uh, I would agree with that. And, and the... I mean, the, an issue with universities is maybe people haven't been learning things that are relevant when they leave or w- or will carry them forward in a helpful way when, when they leave. Um, your approach is obviously very different with the Screen Academy.
[00:45:53] We also, we, we, you know, as Charlie will say, any of our, our young students, if they want to go on to university, [00:46:00] we really encourage that. And what we've done is we've created an industry department that follows our students for five years. So if we have a student who leaves us, wants to go on to university, does their university, and then after university wants to go b- into the film and television industry, they come back to us, and they have access to our industry department, who will then go and help them get a job.
[00:46:27] So we really encourage university, but only if our students feel it's right for them. Yes. I mean, we've produced a, a report recently from Reading Partnership called The Three Lane Superhighway, which gives... We... Well, I'm, I'm an advocate for a clear system where young people can either leave school and go straight into work or into an apprenticeship, lane two, or into university and then work lane three.
[00:46:51] Exactly. But as, as you said, all of them end up in work one way or another. Mm. And I think it's really important to ensure that no one gets left behind or [00:47:00] overlooked, and that's what's wonderful about what you're doing- Yeah ... is it's an opportunity for everyone to move on into employment. So what's the, what's the longer term vision, this for you really, Charlie, for the, for the Day One Trust- Mm
[00:47:12] and the schools? W- w- where are you hoping to take this from here? Yeah, good question. Um, so we think there's more to do with the schools we have, so we wanna continue. You know, they're great, but I want them to be like, you know, truly world-class. So I think we can keep learning, we can keep iterating. I think we have a responsibility, and we're looking at this now with the, the trustees, um, can we widen our impact?
[00:47:34] So one of the risks, I think, is LSA and, and ELAM have so much resource and additional support from the industry. The problem we're trying to solve is, you know, do you have access to the industry? So ELAM and LSA do a great job, but you could look at it on a more macro scale and go, "Well, you, you're becoming part of the problem because, yes, I know someone that works in the industry, or I lived in the M25, so I could go to ELAM and LSA."
[00:47:57] It might mean that. So I think we have a responsibility now to [00:48:00] look broader. Can we support other colleges? Can we share more? Can we help people learn? Can we set more of these institutions up if they're needed, like authentically needed? So I think the next five years is a big question for, like, can we widen our impact?
[00:48:12] Can we do more for young people across the UK? So, so would you do that-- I'm thinking it's a bit like growing a business. Yeah. Would you do that as a franchise pack that other colleges could start, or would you do it by opening a, another outlet in Liverpool or somewhere else? I mean, what, what, what sort of ticking- It could be a combo of both
[00:48:29] You know, a combo of both. Well, and I think-- So the f- the franchise model or the sharing of some of the wonderful resources that we've got, which we can share, is, is definitely something we can do and, and there's no limits to that. That can go across all four nations. Mm. I suppose with digital- Yeah ... uh, AI might enable that actually in some ways.
[00:48:46] Absolutely. Totally. Yeah. And you come to our school and lots of people see in the school we've got these wonderful studios and wonderful resources. Some of the magic of the school is the, the kinda IP of the curriculum that we've created- Mm ... which we've created with Disney, with Netflix, with freelancers, and lots of [00:49:00] that doesn't require big, shiny equipment, and we can share that with colleges in the Northeast where there's one film and TV teacher doing a small course, but there's no reason they shouldn't have access to all of the wonderful stuff we have.
[00:49:10] Um, so we're looking now at, at building more establishments. Uh, and a little bit like the story of the school, because the schools have been very successful and politically they're quite successful and industry-wise they're quite successful, people are coming and asking us. You know, I think there's, there's a lot of opportunity for us to expand.
[00:49:28] Yeah. So we're having to be more cautious, and we don't wanna fall foul of like, "Oh, we, we said yes to everything," and then- That's a risk, isn't it? Uh. Yeah, and everyone like you who knows business says the reason businesses fail is cybersecurity, taking on too much expansion, M&A or, you know- Getting spread too thinly.
[00:49:44] Yeah. So that's, that's the risk. And I'm just like, "Yeah, I wanna do everything. Let's change the world." Where we're not. We we're a little bit more Charlie and, you know- Well, it sounds like a good dynamic. Well- Yeah ... Charlie is, is extraordinary and will and is [00:50:00] changing the world. But yes, we're a little bit more...
[00:50:02] But, you know, someone like, for instance, and you know him, Jimmy Melville, h- Hat Trick Productions from Liverpool, I'd love to do something like this in Liverpool. Charlie's working with him at the moment to see if that's possible. We love the idea of, because he's from Liverpool, and he could- Yes ... get a board together of people from, from Liverpool.
[00:50:25] Would that work? We're looking at it. Yes, we would love it to. Um, there has to be y- you know, appetite from the DFE. Do they have a lot of money at the moment? Probably not. Uh, are they very supportive of free schools? There's a question mark there. But we feel really, really strongly that more students across the whole of England need to have access to this kind of education.
[00:50:52] Well, what strikes me very obviously is it's worked. I mean, you're getting good results in every way. We are. Yeah. So- We are ... [00:51:00] more of that would be good on that basis only, really. Absolutely. Yeah. So what advice would you give to young people now trying to break into creative industries, you know, today? Any particular bits of advice?
[00:51:15] I think for me it's open-mindedness, um, and just never, ever give up. Knock on the doors you need to. Um, learn the skills you need to, and just be present. Get up in the morning and feel that it is possible. I mean, it is tough out there and, um, I mean, our students are very lucky. We do things like we, we, we have bursaries for driving lessons because you often need to know how to drive a car to work on a film set.
[00:51:54] So I think it's just seeking out the opportunities and, and grabbing them. [00:52:00] Yeah. And lots of people living in urban areas wouldn't typically think it was important to learn to drive. Exactly. Mm. Yeah. Exactly. Charlie, have you got any thoughts on that? Yeah. The, the, the, yeah, all, all of what Lisa says I think is amazing.
[00:52:11] We haven't really discussed AI, but I think if I was a young person or, or I, I am a person and I should be doing this as well, and do do this. I, I think you need to be curious. You need to kind of lean in and understand AI and the tools that are available. Lots of the industry people that we speak to in the world of film and TV are saying, "Now when I look at a CV, I'm just looking, do they get AI?
[00:52:28] Do they understand it?" And what is AI? 'Cause the tools change all the time, and that conversation- Yeah ... is relentless. But I think, I think being, riding the wave and playing and being part of it and understanding it and not getting left behind is gonna be important for the young people. I don't think it's the, the, the, you know, the sole thing they need to do, but if I was a young...
[00:52:46] And there's so much opportunity. They have so much agency now, young people, due to AI. There's all sorts of risks and threats, but it has given them a huge amount of agency and a huge amount of opportunity. And there's quite a lot of free resources [00:53:00] that y- y- young people can access. You know, on our website we have re- courses.
[00:53:04] A lot of them are free or- Mm ... very low cost. And Anthropic I know has an academy online which is free, where people can learn about Claude. Yeah. And that's the big AI application that people are really interested in, in business at the moment, so. Absolutely. So there's quite a lot available to people now that wasn't typically in the past for free online.
[00:53:22] Yeah, absolutely. That if you apply yourself, you can really do well, I think. Mm. 'Cause there aren't many people who know that stuff at the moment. Mm. It's so new. Mm. So a young person who can soak that up and make a, you know, g- a good understanding of it would do well, I think. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
[00:53:38] Definitely. So what excites... My, my last question before I come to my wrap-up questions for you both is, what excites you most about the decade ahead?
[00:53:50] Um, what excites, uh, me most about the decade ahead? I, yeah, like, no, just to touch on the same points. We've had a re- we've kind [00:54:00] of We're more than a decade in with these two schools now, but, um, we've had a decade. The model's been proven. It's been proven over a period of time because I'm constantly like, "Well, we did f- three, five years.
[00:54:10] Will we do another five years or something?" You know, could put... So I think the foundations are pretty strong. Um, and so I think the idea of, like, widening impact and whether that's through working with more colleges, more school leaders, more industry partners, building more, I think is really exciting 'cause I would love to see...
[00:54:25] You know, the stories are what keep us going, and the stories that Lisa articulated, and when you get down to the, the sto- the individual stories of how kids' lives have been changed, like, that's why we do this business. We're not shareholders or making any money. There's no one-day promise of, like, a huge exit.
[00:54:39] It's like we're changing lives, which is a real privileged business to be in. So I love the idea of doing that with more kids from, from backgrounds that have huge potential but maybe would never have realized it. I think that's, like, a magical and a hugely privileged thing to be able to operate in. And I think when I finish my career, hopefully not for a long time, I'll look back and be like, "I don't regret a second," 'cause I [00:55:00] think I had so much purpose and so much value in what I did, and I'm so proud.
[00:55:04] So I think there's more opportunity over the next 10 years to do more of it. Fantastic. Well, I certainly hope you do that. Lisa, what's on your mind? I, I, I, just what Charlie was saying, and actually listening to you, Charlie, I just thought, you know, for me, my responsibility is profi- providing the infrastructure so that the Charlies of this world can go on and really make a difference in, in the next decade or so.
[00:55:33] Um, because just listening to you, Charlie, is, it's absolutely right. I mean, we're, we're in a, an extraordinary privileged position to be able to help young people who just need a little bit more infrastructure and, and to be ab- open a few doors. And for me, it's all about growth. I think with what Charlie has done with ELAM and with LSA, we really [00:56:00] have proven that we can make a difference, and now it's about making sure that more young people have access to that.
[00:56:10] Making an even bigger difference. Yeah. So- Absolutely. Well, I wish you both absolute continued success with this. It's very, uh, inspiring, and it has been very interesting to hear how the two of you have collaborated so impactfully. I congratulate you on that. Oh, thank you for having us. And I hope, I hope you have many more years of success.
[00:56:28] You're changing the world one young person at a time- Yeah ... and helping people really fulfill their potential- Yeah ... which is a wonderful thing to do. So, um, thank you for coming in to share- You're good, you're good with those pithy, uh, statements. Yeah, he's brilliant. Yeah, yeah. You're a writer. He's absolute- Someone would think you've got five books.
[00:56:42] He's brilliant. I would have gone into a creative industry maybe. Yeah. You've done it, James. But anyway, so improving lives through work is what we do at Reed, so you're doing that manifold. So what I would like to finish up with, as I always do, is my final questions, which I'll ask you both. I'm gonna start with you, Charlie Lisa, 'cause [00:57:00] we at Read love Mondays, and what is it that gets you up on a Monday morning?
[00:57:05] Fear. So I'm a very, uh, fearful person. I wake up in fear. I like to be under that duvet, um, where I don't have to think about the day and cope with feelings. Um, so fear gets me out of bed because I know I can't spend the whole day under the duvet, and then what takes over after the shower is life. Being lu- feeling lucky to be alive, and the fact that Monday is the start of what could be a really interesting week.
[00:57:47] It might be a tough week, it might involve feelings that I don't want to feel, but I know it's gonna be different to the week before. So actually, once I've conquered that fear, I love a [00:58:00] Monday. Oh, thanks for sharing that. No one's ever said that before, but it's a very powerful thought, and, you know, getting out of the duvet regardless is key.
[00:58:10] Yeah, that was deep. Yeah. Charlie? Uh, I have a two-year-old son who is, uh, currently, uh, potty training, so he tells me he needs a wee at 5:00 in the morning, and you have to get up, so that's literally what gets me out of bed. Well, it's good that he's telling you. Yeah, but then he doesn't. It's a, it's a, it's a ruse- Making progress
[00:58:26] to get you out of bed. Oh, is it? Okay. And then get him on the toilet, and doesn't actually ... But what, um, I go back to the, what I said before, like I, I feel so phenomenally privileged to have kind of semi-stumbled into the world of education and this, and like having a very purpose-led job. Um, and, and then also this kind of entrepreneurial, we're building things as well, and I think as a school leader you, you have the opportunity to do that in whatever school you're in.
[00:58:50] And so that's, I just think purpose. I have such like a strong sense of purpose in my job, and for my kids I will make sure that they have, you know, that's such an important thing and, you know, [00:59:00] you weigh up lots of things in a career. It's like resources, finances, security. But I think, uh, you, you wanna over-index on purpose 'cause at some point in your life you'll be like, "What, what am I doing and why am I doing it?"
[00:59:10] So make sure you care about what you do. I like that. Over-index on purpose, everyone. That's good. Yeah. And so my last question, I'm gonna start with you, Charlie, is, uh, where do you see yourself in five years' time? Um, I really don't know. And I've, I've ne- you know, I, I've never really had a... I've just kind of gone with the flow, uh, and been fortunate again in ending up where I, I have.
[00:59:34] I've never had a plan. It's always been hopefully still in the Day One Trust, hopefully still having w- widening impact. If not, doing something adjacent, I think with young people is now where I know my kind of heart is. So yeah, in that, in that broad category. But you, you're sort of living in the present is what I'm sensing.
[00:59:53] You don't have a th- concern about five years particularly. Not so much. No. And I've got to a point where I, I just trust that, [01:00:00] like, if I keep working hard and doing the right things and, um... The thing I tell the students every year, and I notice y- your book is, is something along the lines of a good, good business, being good business is good for business or something.
[01:00:11] I've... It is, uh, like my... Every year I say to the students, "The one thing you need to do when you, when you leave this institution, the one piece of advice I'd give you is be kind." Um, you'll have all the technical skills, the behaviors, but, like, if you're kind, it's not just a good thing, it will pay you back dividends in your career, in whatever you do, whatever business you build.
[01:00:29] And so I think- There's a lot of evidence that that is true. Yeah. Yeah. People have more money. Yeah, they do. And there is no ev- No, we've done research around that- Maybe that's your research- ... in one of the other books ... I'm forgetting. Yeah, no, they actually do. Yeah. And- I tell them that. I say, "It's not just a nice thing."
[01:00:40] Yeah. It's like you will get more from being kind- Yeah, it, it pays- ... being paid to be kind. That is absolutely true. Uh- So and very good advice. Yeah. And it just feels good, so. So yeah, I think- Yeah ... I'll be fine wherever I am. But I love doing what I'm doing. Keep being kind. Uh- Yeah. And so Lisa, what about you in five years' time?
[01:00:57] It's great to hear that because whenever Charlie [01:01:00] talks about be kind, and that is always the center of his speech to our, to our leavers, I always think, "Well, what else are you gonna say? Aren't you gonna say anything else?" And it's lovely to hear that actually the research has been done, and it is the most important thing, because kindness is huge.
[01:01:22] Certainly is. It takes nothing to be kind Um, I live a day at a time, and that's sort of how I've lived the last 44 years. So I never look at what might or might not happen and where I might or might not be. It would absolutely fill me with such fear. So, um, I have absolutely no, no idea. But I hope, I hope still to be working with Charlie and, and I hope that still to be in education with young people and doing what [01:02:00] we do within the rest of the UK.
[01:02:03] Well, I certainly hope so too. Thank you so much, both of you, for coming in to talk to me. I found that very inspiring and insightful, and I'm sure our listeners will too. Thanks so much. Oh, thank you, James. It's been a real pleasure having us. Well, thank you, James. Thank you for having us. It's a real pleasure.
[01:02:16] Fabulous. Perfect. You know, though you would make a fantastic double act. I was wondering if we could- Do you want one more question? Just one more- ... and then what are the challenges
[01:02:34] So I'll ask. So, so are there any challenges that bubble up running schools of this type that, that you might wanna point to or share so that people Get a rounded picture, I suppose Yeah, yeah, for sure. I, I think schools in general, schools are interesting beasts because someone once told me, um... So like all businesses, schools are, it's a people business.
[01:02:54] We have, you know, 170 odd staff. Um, every staff has their own need process [01:03:00] system that sits around them for them to be effective. Um, but in schools, the kids never stop coming, right? So I think in, in other industries, you can, "Let, let's have an a- away day. Let's have a meeting this afternoon for two and a half hours."
[01:03:12] In school, you've got this, like, rigid calendar and rigid timetable, so finding time to do the strategic work is, is really, really difficult. Hang on. But, I mean, I've gotta challenge you, 'cause some people say you do get school holidays. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so school, yeah, but I mean, so t- Half term, it was just last week.
[01:03:30] Yeah, yeah. So my, so I-I and some of the leaders will, will have, you know, the kind of 35-day holiday, so we will work during that time. But teachers will be off. Typically- Yeah ... that's in teachers' contracts, so they'll be off during that. Um, and I guess the thing in a school is there are other businesses in the public sector and other areas that will have this, but like, you know, you know, bef- before 9:00 AM, often we've got, we've had an ambulance come into the school, someone's administered CPR on someone, um- Often?
[01:03:56] Not, not, not often. I'm not s- You wouldn't expect it every [01:04:00] day, but it- But these things happen ... but I'll go home to my wife, who works in a- Yeah ... more typical business, and she'll be telling me about her day, and the things that will have happened in my day, I won't even say, 'cause I'll be like, "Oh, no, this happened today, and that happened today, and then there was this, and then there was that."
[01:04:13] And 'cause it's so common- So it can be quite eventful. Yeah. You've got- Mm ... 900 young people who, you know, coming- Yeah ... together, and they're all really well-behaved and but, you know, it's- Someone can fall over or... Yeah. It's just the, the things that happen- Yeah ... are... And you know, we have a real duty of care, like all schools and care.
[01:04:28] So yeah, schools are- Well, you are responsible for them, aren't you? So- Absolutely ... yeah, and that's a big deal. Do you remember, we'd been open a couple of months and, um, we'd sent some students out to start filming, you know, start getting used to- Mm ... the equipment, filming for a, a short film, and a couple of our students hadn't listened to, um, "Don't take out toy guns and wave them around on the green."
[01:04:57] They hadn't listened? They hadn't listened. Oh. And [01:05:00] the next thing we knew, Charlie was on the phone to the founder saying, "Don't be too alarmed. However, we have got the police down here, and we've got a couple of our students spread-eagled on Islington Green with guns pointed at their heads." Um, and of course, they had been called by a nervous person in a shop saying, "There's a couple of guys out there waving around guns."
[01:05:27] And- That would get a quick response from the Met Police ... that got a quick response from- Yeah ... the Met Police. And the fact that Barbara Broccoli is one of the founders- Oh ... we were just absolutely convinced that every single newspaper, Bond, look what they're doing, kids- Oh ... guns And I mean, it was... I mean, we thought we were closed before we were even open.
[01:05:50] But, and actually, uh, the most, uh, i- the most tricky thing was, uh, for us was making sure that the, the student welfare because- Mm ... to have a gun pointed at your head- [01:06:00] A real one. Yeah ... yeah, a real one- Oh ... was, was quite shocking. So you just never know. We learn all the time. All the time. Yes. The har- There was one last thing.
[01:06:10] The hardest thing actually I'm thinking at the moment in the schools is we live in a heavily, quite extreme politicized time, and so for the young people to make sense of the world around them is very difficult with the politics that's happening in America, the politics that's happening here. Um, and it can be very confusing for a young person growing up, and we have a job to kind of communicate that and communicate that in a very bipartisan way and help people understand, but I think over the past sort of, yeah, five to six years, that's been harder than it's ever been before.
[01:06:39] And you're not, you know, that's a difficult thing to be trained to do or expect your teachers to hold that in spaces with students, and so that- Yes ... that's very challenging at the moment. Yeah, I can imagine. When, uh, Rishi Sunak was Prime Minister, and, uh, he loved what we were doing and, and he'd come and visit with his team quite a few times.
[01:06:57] The first time he came down, the [01:07:00] next day we had, what was it, a sheet? Uh, one of the students had just sort of drawn a picture of him with blood. And I mean, they were furious- Right ... that he had come down. But there's a lot of- No one knows that. We never told anyone that. Yeah. I mean, it was- Well, that's creative.
[01:07:17] Yeah, absolutely. But what I'm hearing- But- ... you don't know what's gonna happen next, really You don't really know what's gonna happen. No. And as Charlie said, you know, our students h- you know, they... It's a really, really very transient world at the moment. You, you know, everything that's going on- Well, it's febrile, isn't it?
[01:07:30] It really is. Yeah. And then of course, because we are a creative school and our students are all out making short films and they're using quite expensive equipment, we have a lot of safety issues. Um, and they're learning at an early age how to look after expensive equipment, uh, how to guard themselves, how to look after themselves if they're on the tube with a camera and they're going off filming.
[01:07:58] You're worried they might be stolen from them. Yeah. [01:08:00] Absolutely. Yeah. So they're- Do you teach martial arts? Yeah. I mean, it's... Well, we do. We have a football club. Right. So, so- Not quite the same ... not quite the same. I often think, you know- Unless you're a Chelsea supporter ... that's a useful life skill. Unless, yeah.
[01:08:11] Very good. Well, I
[01:08:17] think that covers that. Right. I've got a thumbs up from Florence. Yeah. Thank you. Well, that was an interesting-
[01:08:26] What does it take to build a sustainable creative industry and open the doors to people who never thought they belonged in it? Today on All About Business, I'm joined by Lisa Brier, award-winning film producer and founder of Cowboy Films, and Charlie Kenhard, CEO of Day One Trust and co-founder of London Screen Academy.
[01:08:50] In this episode, we discuss the business of creativity, how the UK can build more sustainable pathways into the film and TV industries, [01:09:00] and why education, entrepreneurship, and industry partnerships could reshape the future of the creative economy
[01:09:19] Yeah. Okay. So just- How'd you go? Okay.
[01:09:28] In this episode, we discuss the business of creativity, how the UK can build more sustainable pathways into the creative industries, and why education, entrepreneurship, and industry partnerships could reshape the future of the creative economy
[01:09:48] Thank you, Lisa, and thank you, Charlie, for joining me on All About Business. I'm your host, James Reed, chairman and
[01:09:58] CEO of Reed, a family-run recruitment and philanthropy company. If you'd like to find out more [01:10:00] about Cowboy Films, London Screen Academy, Day One Trust, or Reed, you'll find all the links in the show notes. Thank you for listening, and see you next time. Great. All right.
This podcast was co-produced by Reed Global and Flamingo Media. If you’d like to create a chart-topping podcast to elevate your brand, visit: http://flamingo-media.co.uk/